P&P3 in Top 50 Film Adaptations List
The Guardian has listed PRIDE AND PREJUDICE in its list of the 50 best film adaptations of all time. We are astonished to note that no other Austen adaptation made the list. It is unclear what criteria was used for the listing; from the article, it seems as though the quality of the original was weighed as much as the film, which is kind of strange in our opinion.
Thanks to Alert Janeite Robyn for sending us the link.
April 24th, 2006 at 4:36 am
Well, I´m glad PP3 is among this selection, but I don´t like this top50 - there is no Tolkien´s LOTR and many other big adaptations. It is not my top 50.
April 24th, 2006 at 4:58 am
I’d say that any JA adaption would have been better than the new one , because as nice as it may be as a romance film, it is awful as an adaption of the novel.
“Do you dance, Mr. Darcy?” - “Not if I can help it!”
Come on! (IMO!)
Strange criteria for a strange list!
And what version of “Les Liasons Dangereuses” do they mean actually? There is no film version that goes with that name, unless in french translation.
April 24th, 2006 at 8:45 am
I am happy that P&P3 and Breakfast at Tiffany’s made the list but some other choices are kinda strange. I guess everything is relative…
April 24th, 2006 at 8:58 am
I love every one of Jane Austen’s books, haveing reread my favourite six many times. This last weekend, I kept seeing the DVD release being advertised, and was teased enough to be enticed to do what I said I would never do: watch this version, because, despite my loving both Keira Knightley and Matthew MacFadyen, I could not think of anyone else surpassing Jennifer Ehle’s Lizzie or Colin Firth’s Mr. Darcy!
I was so mistaken: in letting myself be seduced to view this version. It was absolutely devastating to watch; I forced myself to wait for it to get better. It is a skeleton of the original story (needless to say, being a movie), and rewritten in modern, unpoetic, and lean lines. It may, as Sylvia above says, be a good “romance movie”, but it is not meant for anyone who appreciates Jane Austen’s writing, and character development.
April 24th, 2006 at 9:25 am
Hi Mags! I wouldn’t be too sure that this is the new P&P since there is a 1940 version. It’s a pretty vague article so I think it would be wise to not draw any conclusions.
April 24th, 2006 at 9:59 am
Hi Angelica! I don’t think anyone would pick P&P0 to a 50 Best Adaptations list, do you?
I remember having a similar discussion about this subject when I took a class in comparative literature, film adaptations vs. the original prose work (we studied novels, non-fiction, short stories and one play that were adapted to film). We were trying to come up with a film adaptation that was as good as or better than the original work when the original was a great work as well. I suggested THE GODFATHER, and the professor said it was a great movie but not a great novel in the artistic sense, though it is a page-turner. Same with GONE WITH THE WIND and SILENCE OF THE LAMBS. I also suggested P2 but the professor didn’t think it was a good film (!). I don’t think we actually came up with one.
April 24th, 2006 at 10:22 am
Well, until it is undeniably confirmed, I would consider this article with a grain of salt.
April 24th, 2006 at 10:39 am
And honestly, with the unknown panel of “experts” and an unstated criteria, I can’t help but feel that this is another marketing collaboration between the Guardian and the bookstores (Waterstones and Borders in particular). I just can’t understand why S&S isn’t there if top Austen film adaptations were considered. Oh well, there were a considerable number of good film adaptations that were not included so as I said, take the article with a grain of salt. Definitely NOT a definitive list of top 50 book to film adaptations.
April 24th, 2006 at 11:22 am
The NSA keyword analyser was fed “Mags, dear Jane, P2″. This time the insecure security apparatus whirred and spun and returned nada.
April 24th, 2006 at 11:57 am
Your Lordship: that would be the 1995 adaptation of Persuasion, a/k/a The Movie That Melts Even The Most Dried-Up of Hardened Nutlike Spinster Hearts, i.e. The Editrix’s.
April 24th, 2006 at 1:56 pm
I would have thought they would rather have chosen (Emma Thompson’s) S&S. I found it so much better - in all senses - than P&P3. Weird people, these experts.
Quite off-topic but I am not surprised to find no Brontë nivels (or films) on the list. I don’t think I’m particularly ‘proud’ of any.
April 24th, 2006 at 1:59 pm
Mags - I only watched it once very badly dubbed but I must confess that Persuasion didn’t manage to melt my (dried-up or not) heart at all. Hmmm… perhaps I should try and track down a copy that contains the original version and see how I like that.
April 24th, 2006 at 2:30 pm
Well, the novel also melts our dried-up nutlike etc. heart, so that might be the difference.
If Charlotte Brontë had read Persuasion, I think she wouldn’t have said what she said about Jane not knowing about passionate love. I think Captain Wentworth’s letter is quite passionate enough even for Miss I Like ‘Em Tall Dark and Brooding.
April 24th, 2006 at 2:40 pm
“Miss I Like ‘Em Tall Dark and Brooding”
ROFL!! Nice nickname
I do love Persuasion the book. Come to think about it it was because I’d loved the book so much that I hurried to get the film (I don’t usually watch dubbed films) so I might have expected too much out of it.
April 24th, 2006 at 3:37 pm
Hello, everyone!
This is my first time posting. I’ve been reading the site, the reviews, and following some links–found the site when I became horribly, scarily disappointed by the movie a couple of weeks ago. I had been so looking forward to seeing it when it came out on PPV. Stunned mullet pretty much describes my feeling after the critics all raved about the thing. Oh well–a shy, loveable Darcy and rude, messy Lizzy. It boggles the mind. Needless to say, but I wouldn’t put it on even a “fair adaptations” list. The family was Thomas Hardy-ish to me more than Jane–and I don’t even really qualify as a true Janeite. Took the test and scored “Avid Fan” or something like that!
My reason for coming out of lurk mode: Mags, how about James Joyce’s The Dead with Angelica Huston? I would say both qualify as “great” and the movie is extremely faithful to the story and so beautiful. I cried through both and couldn’t even think why until I realized it’s about unfulfilled lives, lost opportunities, and self-deception.
Glad to be reading here!
Gigi
(P.S. Just re-read Persuasion and think the Hayter’s house Winthrop would be like the Bennet’s house was presented in PP3–”without dignity” and surrounded by barns and the barnyard.)
April 24th, 2006 at 7:09 pm
When they make up these lists, they gather three editors and put down all their favorites and make a combination list. Perhaps a younger editor who loved Pride and P 3 included it. That is how the lists are made. I also loved Persuasion 95, but not any better than Pride and P 05. It is all a matter of taste.
April 25th, 2006 at 1:38 am
Will I be thrown from the site if I say it? I actually, kinda, really, loved P&P3. Not meaning to offend anyone but, I liked it better than the book. I read the book twice, the first not finishing the last ten pages, then the second reading the entire book. But I’m afraid I can’t get past this one part “His affection for her soon sunk into indifference; her’s lasted a little longer”
I could not get past that sentence without reading it a few times. The only book whose ending did catch my eye and caused me to smile had to be “Gone with the Wind.” It didn’t seem to have an ending, Austen ended hers and didn’t give the mind space to wander. I cannot say much more on Austen because I do not know as much as you all do, but I do know this, a true entertainer will let their audience be the guide to the words at the end of the period.
I’m not very book savvy, but I know what I enjoy. And from the start of this book, it did affect me. But look at the bright side, with P&P3 on the list gives people another incentive to visit this site and explore into Jane Austen’s world.
here i’d love to put my name,
but ’twill be signed
Anonymous
April 25th, 2006 at 4:13 am
Gigi - “stunned mullet” - LOL, that’s a good one! Definitely worth coming out of the woodwork to share that with us. But what ‘test’ are you talking about - the one that you scored Avid Fan on? Would love to see where I’d come out.
*secretly wonders if she dare aspire to the rarefied echelons of Austen Whore*
April 25th, 2006 at 10:23 am
The test is on the OKCupid website. It’s a complicated link, but just Google “Janeite test” and it’s the first hit. 50 questions–and they weren’t gimmes either! I thought I would score a little higher, so it was humbling for me–I scored well on the books but low on her life.
Good Luck!
Gigi
April 25th, 2006 at 12:48 pm
Hello everyone,
I don’t really understand the reasons of the people who made the list. I don’t know but, if the main reason was to keep the spirit of the novel in the film, I think they have failed.
By example, S&S2 keeps it better than P&P3; French Lietenant’s Woman is a good movie, but it’s not truly faithful to the beautiful book; The Talented Mr Ripley, I think Alain Delon’s movie is better; and so on…In Comics, Spiderman keeps the spirit better, and every scene is not a copy of the comic book (like Sin City)
Well, about P2 discusion, I think it is smart, but I still wait for a great P3 (lets cross fingers for Davies!)
kisses!
April 25th, 2006 at 1:02 pm
Oh dear dog. Keep Andrew Davies AWAY from my Persuasion!!!! (And I don’t think he’ll be involved–they already have someone else lined up, name escapes me.)
April 25th, 2006 at 1:32 pm
Why not Davies? Though I do understand you love P2 so dearly, Mags.;)
April 25th, 2006 at 1:57 pm
I’ve read his script of NA, that’s why. *shudder*
He made Da Man boring. Enough said.
April 25th, 2006 at 7:21 pm
You are right, Mags, AD is not involved in P3, the name I have read (I cannot place the source at the moment) is Simon Burke (he wrote some episodes of Cadfael and the 1997 miniseries of Tom Jones). AD seems to be involved only in NA2 (I’m not please with his old script) and S&S3 (I wonder if he will put Willoughby’s confession).
As for P2, I also love it very much, but this is not the first time I have heard people from Spain complaining about it, I suspect in part it is the dubbing but I also understand P2 is not easy to the eye on first approach, one gets mellowed in subsecuent viewings.
I do not think the Guardian will clarify which versions were listed, but I suspect they are only cinema versions (not tv adaptations), which makes the inclusion either of P&P0 or P&P3 outrageous, both are awful as adaptations. I have said it before (when the argument about the Oscar nominations erupted). If I would have to choose one of the film adaptations, S&S2 would have my vote because is both a magnificent piece of art and also a faithful adaptation (it doesn’t matter it is not my personal favourite among the adaptations, it comes probably 5th).
That also can be said about the list in general, a very controversial selection.
April 26th, 2006 at 4:05 am
Gigi - brilliant test! Really, it was very good. She had quite some cunning questions in there.
*smugly preens*
You scored 92% Book Knowledge and 92% Janeite-ness!
You know the books inside and out, and you have quite a bit of knowledge about Jane Austen herself. You are a true fan and deserving of the label “Janeite”! How you compared to other people your age and gender:
You scored higher than 99% on BookKnowledge
You scored higher than 99% on Janeite-ness
Only thing is, although I can think of three that I might have got wrong, I can’t for the life of me imagine what the last one was. Wish the test would let you know which ones they were.
April 26th, 2006 at 7:37 am
Well, I was confused about Davies,…, but I truly want another Persuasion Movie.
About Davies, maybe he doesn’t do justice to Da Man…but he was faithful to Lizzy and even to Emma ;)…it’s quite probably he doesn’t understand our Catherine.
And as you know, Cyn, it’s not a dubbing question…:) for me, it was even better to listen in Spanish the film…it’s just that although I think it is a cute movie, it is not my Persuasion…
PS: by the way, the voice of Ciaran in ‘Spanish’ is the same of Alan Rickman, which is very good and dark
April 26th, 2006 at 9:20 am
I’ve just done the test too and I’m all smugness too because of my results (I have to brag)
“Janeite
You scored 100% Book Knowledge and 94% Janeite-ness!
You know the books inside and out, and you have quite a bit of knowledge about Jane Austen herself. You are a true fan and deserving of the label “Janeite”!
How you compared to other people your age and gender:
You scored higher than 99% on BookKnowledge
You scored higher than 99% on Janeite-ness”
I do really wonder in what did I erred on Janeite-ness.
Mari Carmen, we will never agree on P2 and E3. That’s all
April 26th, 2006 at 1:22 pm
Cinthia, you must help me out here. I’ve just gone back through the test and ID’d one thing - I got the name of who first used the term ‘Janeites’ wrong, but for the life of me can’t figure out the rest. I think one was the chapter of Emma that was written from someone else’s point of view. The only thing I can think of is the conversation between Mrs Weston and Mr Knightly about Emma - but the POV didn’t seem to come from one or the other in particular. Also which book Bridget Jone’s Edge of Reason was based on. But honestly, although I could see the first movie loosely based on P&P, which in God’s name could you equate the second one with? What were your answers?
April 26th, 2006 at 1:36 pm
Austen Reincarnate
You scored 100% Book Knowledge and 96% Janeite-ness! You know pretty much everything a person can know about Jane Austen and her works. You love and appreciate her as the genius she was. You don’t just know facts about her books - you’ve learned about her as a person. You are a true Janeite, in every sense of the word. In fact, you are a model human being, according to this partial, prejudiced, and ignorant test-maker.
Hee. I’ll take that and run with it. But I don’t think I can join the ranks of the Shrivelled Austen Whores, because I refuse to give up my moisturizing sunscreen. ;-D
Karenlee — Edge of Reason is loosely based on Persuasion. The Emma chapter question stumped me; I guessed the chapter where we learn that Mr. Knightley dislikes Frank Churchill for reasons best known to himself, or something like that.
April 26th, 2006 at 1:50 pm
Thanks Heather, Persuasion is actually what I guessed at the first time, but I still really don’t quite see the connection. But, huh!? What do I read in the comments on your score? How in the world could you have gotten 100% book knowledge, and be told “You don’t just know facts about her books”? Very strange!
April 26th, 2006 at 2:37 pm
Karenlee–read the book. You’ll see it.
After I dissed AD earlier, I’ll say this for him–he tried to put Persuasion content in the screenplay for EoR and the studio made him take it out. They thought people wouldn’t like it. *bangs head on desk*
April 26th, 2006 at 3:47 pm
Mags, I have read - and re-read - the book countless times. Perhaps the problem is I’ve only seen EoR once (which was quite enough). But as I remember, Brigit’s not ‘persuaded’ to leave Mark Darcy, she does so in an insecure, jealous sniffy fit. She almost succumbs (again) to Daniel Cleaver (William Elliot???), but doesn’t. In Persuasion, Anne doesn’t get into any kind of trouble that Captain Wentworth has to help her out of. Nor is there a situation where Bridget’s actions (e.g. Louisa Musgrove’s accident) start re-reminding her old beloved of her value and worth. What connections/similarities do you see in the storylines?
Oh - and anonymous who posted quite a ways above, of COURSE you will not be thrown from this site for loving P&P3. I can’t speak for Mags, but I’m pretty sure that anyone who is interested in exploring Austen’s world further - for whatever reason - will always be welcome here.
April 27th, 2006 at 1:52 pm
Karenlee–Magda was totally Mary Musgrove, overwhelmed by child-rearing; whatsername jumping in the lake was Louisa jumping off the Cobb; Bridget and Mark’s co-worker (was his name Nigel? Niles? Can’t remember) bonded over self-help books, as Anne and Benwick did over poetry. The adventure in Thailand, I have no idea how that is supposed to fit in, unless that’s supposed to be Bath, where Wentworth/Mark show up eventually. Above all, they separated over a misunderstanding and then got back together in the end–even though Bridget got the wrong letter.
And no, you won’t be “thrown off the site” for liking P&P3, but we will look at you with puzzled expressions and hurt-puppy-dog eyes. Hope you don’t mind.
April 27th, 2006 at 2:51 pm
Hmmm… well, ok. But I’d still call that VERY loosely based. And I’m afraid I can’t really agree with your ‘above all’ reason for the similarities - that they separated over a “misunderstanding”. Yes, both couples eventually got back together, but Anne and Captain Wentworth’s separation was no “misunderstanding”. It was a painful, yet very deliberate, choice Anne made to break the engagement. Lady Russell managed to convince her it would be extremely rash to go ahead with the marriage (relationship) because his prospects were so uncertain. “But it was not merely selfish caution, under which she acted, in putting an end to it. Had she not imagined herself consulting his good, even more than her own, she could hardly have given him up. The belief of being prudent for HIS advantage was her chief consolation under the misery of a parting”. Like I said, I’ve only seen EoR once. Was it only jealousy that made Bridget break it off with Mark, or was she thinking after the disaster of that gala she attended with him that she would not be an asset to him in his career? I can’t remember. If that WAS the case, then I can perhaps see something more of a parallel.
April 27th, 2006 at 3:21 pm
You’re right, I chose my words badly there, but (trying to recover a bit) they DID misunderstand one another when they met again in 1814.
I forgot one of the big moments–when Bridget gets her colors done and the woman says, “I could have sworn she’s a winter, but she’s a spring.” To me, that was the biggest Persuasion moment in the book, echoing Anne’s “second spring of youth and beauty.” (I also burst into tears the first time I read it, and still get verklempt over it.)
I agree that the inspiration is quite loose, but it is there, definitely.
April 27th, 2006 at 4:58 pm
As far as I’m concerned the biggest ‘misunderstanding’ in Persuasion was on the side of Captain Frederick Wentworth, who did not apparently realise WHY Anne broke it off with him in the first place. Did she not explain it clearly enough to him at the time? If he was the kind of man who deserved her, couldn’t he have understood that?
“But I too have been thinking over the past, and a question has suggested itself, whether there may not have been one person more my enemy even than that Lady [Russell]. My own self. Tell me if, when I returned to England in the year eight, with a few thousand pounds, and was posted into the Laconia, if I had then written to you, would you have answered my letter…?
“WOULD I?” was all her answer, but the accent was decisive enough.
“Good God!” Captain Wentworth cries, “you would!”
He realises at that moment that he has been his own worst enemy. He and Anne could have been together for years, if not for his…? What? Jane tosses it in almost as an aside at the end of the story, and never answers the question.
April 29th, 2006 at 6:27 pm
Sorry for the delay, I see Mags and Heather have answered some of the questions. Kipling coined the name Janeites, IMHO it is chapter 41 in Emma the one seen from Mr. Knightley’s POV, when he perceives something is going on between JF and FC and tries to warn Emma. About BJD Edge of Reason, there is also the fact that Rebecca who had entangled Mark in her toils and then falls in the lake ends up precisely with his afore mentioned co-worker, and Bridged’s friends are somewhat like Lady Russell promoting the split between Bridge and Mark.
April 29th, 2006 at 11:09 pm
All I can say is, thank GOD it wasnt the 1940 version.