Why the IMDB message forums give us hives
Alert Janeite Maisy directed us to a discussion of S&S07 (maybe 08 now?) on the IMDB forum for the film. A young gentleman who is doing his work experience at a film production house offered to answer questions. (You might have to register with the IMDB to read the discussion–try BugMeNot for a password, but they seem to have a hard time keeping up with IMDB. We’ll excerpt the most interesting stuff here.)
First, poster Samitude asked, quite reasonably we thought:
We’ve heard alot about Willoughby’s part with the young girl in S&S 2007. Is this scene really graphic? How much detail do they go into with that? I hope they keep it vague. I’ve read the book so nothing is a spoiler really.
To which “Androoooo” responded:
At the very beginning of the show, before anything happens they show a man undressing a girl who seems to be protesting.
However there is no nudity, it is tastefully done.
The girl says things like “But.. Mrs Dashwood would..”
And he replies with “Mrs. Dashwood still thinks you’re a child.. and we know better than that don’t we”It then goes onto the beginning of the novel with the death of the father etc.
We later learn the man to be Willoughby and the girl to be Marianne ( I think )
They only introduce Willoughby towards the very end of this part, so we don’t know much about him yet… he seems to be a nice chap, who just rescued Marianne when she fell and bought her wild strawberries.I believe it will be split into 6 parts, each an hour long.
I haven’t read the book or anything so I apologise for any wrong names or anything of that sort.
Six hours? We understood it would be three hours–perhaps six half-hour episodes? Which seems kind of choppy.
Poster randommovies2002 responded to this comment much as we would have (except to add Eliza’s surname, which she certainly did have in the book: Williams):
It could not have been Marianne. It has to be Eliza, Col Brandon’s ward who doesn’t have a last name in the novel. And the girl shouldn’t have said “Mrs. Dashwood” because Willoughby doesn’t even know who the Dashwoods are at that point in the story, and the Dashwoods don’t have any connection with Eliza. Eliza doesn’t know the Dashwoods, so she shouldn’t have been worried about Mrs. Dashwood.
However, if the scene really is as you say it is (and you haven’t mixed up any of the characters),
Androoooo replies:
I think the scene I mentioned is how it should be.
I realise that we haven’t met any of the characters yet and Willoughby would not know who the Dashwoods are but at that point in the program, nothing had happened and I think it was like a “taster” of what is to come, making the viewer wonder who these people are, what their relationship is and so on.Then it goes into the linear trail of things, with the death of the father and so on until the Dashwoods moveinto the smaller house and end up meeting Willoughby.
They do introduce Brandon when the Dashwoods move into the smaller house in the country. We learn that after something happened to his first love he has never been with another woman. But he is taken by Marianne and visits her upon occassion giving her presents (books and music). He seems quite sad and rigid in a way, he doesn’t seem very good at socialising and quite awkward.
At the end of this part, Brandon hears of Marriannes accident and goes to visit her and sees Willoughby in the house, they exchange a strange look and then Brandon makes an excuse and leaves.
Oh, no–Brandon does NOT know about Eliza and Willoughby that soon! We hope that is not implied. Though Brandon is probably a bit jealous of Willoughby’s attentions to Marianne at that point, so it makes sense he would give Willoughby a “strange look” in any event.
Those more conversant with the story persist; Samitude asks:
I am rather confused. Are you saying that in this version Willoughby and Marianne have already met? Are you sure that’s supposed to be Marianne in the first scene? Why would Marianne be calling her mother Mrs. Dashwood and not Mama? If Willoughby and Marianne had already met then Marianne would have already known what a jerk he was and the rest of the film wouldn’t make sense. Something isn’t adding up here. If the girl is Eliza like she’s supposed to be then she would have absolutely no connection with the Dashwoods whatsoever.
Androoooo replies:
No, they haven’t already met.. it’s a glimpse into the future I believe only for the viewer to see as the story had not started yet
This can’t be right. It just can’t.
July 27th, 2007 at 8:43 am
Sounds more like Willoughby seducing a serving girl at Barton Cottage. Oh dear.
July 27th, 2007 at 11:52 am
If this has any truth to it, then it does not bode well for the rest of the series. It seems like AD has crossed the line yet again.
July 27th, 2007 at 12:35 pm
It sounds to me like Androoooo is terribly confuuuuused.
July 27th, 2007 at 1:07 pm
Masterpiece Theatre has posted a page on their website dedicated to “The Complete Jane Austen.” They’ve included a very small photo from S&S 2007.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/austen/index.html
July 27th, 2007 at 2:47 pm
Yes, let’s hope “Androoooo” is just confused because he makes the movie sound unwatchable(is that a word?).
July 27th, 2007 at 3:29 pm
I am feeling more worried about this now. A maid sounds like a good suggestion but *sigh* so not Austen. And who do you think that picture is off on the masterpiece website?
July 27th, 2007 at 4:04 pm
I’m the “Samitude” who keeps asking the questions. All the articles we have read up to this point seem to point to Eliza as being the girl in the beginning. If I remember correctly, Andrew Davies even said something about that in one of his interviews. This Androoooo has said that he hasn’t read the book so I am hoping he just has things mixed up.
July 27th, 2007 at 4:07 pm
I just looked at that small photo from S&S. Is that Willoughby? He looks more like Andrew Buchan who played St. John Rivers in Jane Eyre 2006.
July 27th, 2007 at 4:22 pm
Fyi, the S+S ‘07 picture on the Masterpiece website is of Dominic Cooper (who plays Willoughby). From left to right, here’s who’s who for the first four small photographs (P+P being pretty obvious):
Kate Beckinsale as Emma
Billie Piper as Fanny Price
Carey Mulligan as Isabella Thorpe
Rupert Penry-Jones and Sally Hawkins as Frederick Wentworth and Anne Elliot; Hawkins is also the person in the large photograph.
July 27th, 2007 at 4:45 pm
Sylvia, thanks for asking good questions!
What I’m getting from this is that it IS supposed to be foreshadowing of a sort, giving the viewer a clue of Willoughby’s bad-boy side, but not giving away who is the seducee, if you will; giving away that Willoughby is a cad, but preserving at least the surprise that he impregnated and abandoned a young lady significant to the story, that is, Colonel Brandon’s ward.
But where does “Mrs. Dashwood” come into it? That’s very strange.
July 27th, 2007 at 5:14 pm
I tried posting with a list of who was in most of the Masterpiece website photos, but I think it got blocked by the spam blocker (at least, that’s the message I got.) The Masterpiece site photo for S+S ‘07 is of Dominic Cooper, who plays Willoughby.
July 28th, 2007 at 12:24 pm
I’m sure Androoooo has got things mixed up. I remember Davies saying that the relationship between Willoughby and Eliza would be expanded on in this manner. It is of course Eliza. And I’m sure she does not mention Mrs. Dashwood. Maybe it’s Brandon or something (?).
July 28th, 2007 at 2:49 pm
I never trust what people say on IMDb esp. when the posters claim to be connected to the movie in some way. I was convinced not believe people on IMDb because of a woman who writes on Tom Hulce’s (the man who played Mozart in Amadeus) message board and believes that Tom Hulce is Jesus and she is his lover.
But that’s certainly unrelated to Jane Austen, unless we want to quote Mr. Bennett about making sport in regards to neighbors.
July 28th, 2007 at 10:35 pm
The gentleman doesn’t seem sure. I’d go with him being mixed up, especially as he hasn’t read the book.
July 29th, 2007 at 6:02 pm
The more I read, the more I was convinced that it’s all absolute rubbish. Oh, I’m sure “Androoooo” isn’t purposfully trying to mislead us, but. Mrs. Dashwood? Marrianne? Please. I think it’s obvious that he doesn’t actually know what he’s talking about (so unfortunate his didn’t actually pay attention to the plot of the movie he was helping on), and really, this doesn’t actually tell us anything we didn’t already know.
July 29th, 2007 at 8:51 pm
The new Jane Austen’s Regency World quotes Andrew Davies as saying, “So I began my adaptation with little Eliza’s seduction and abandonment, as a sort of ‘teaser’. It is the first Austen adaptation to start with a sex scene, and about time too, in my opinion.”
I am sure the supposed voice overs of ‘Mrs. Dashwood’ or whatever are inaccurate or are or bad editting. Maybe some sort of stupid foreshadowing technique.
Davies is starting to seem like a perv, I’m sorry to say.
July 30th, 2007 at 10:12 am
Starting?
Actually I have no real objection to the scene being included, as it’s part of the story if not actually in the book; I object to it being the FIRST SCENE! I still say it’s better to have Willoughby’s caddishness revealed later in the story.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:00 am
I’m not sure why Davies thinks it enhances story telling to tip off the viewing audience to plot twists and secrets before the reader of the book would actually know what’s going on. It’s a device he’s used before and I can’t say I’m fond of it.
July 30th, 2007 at 6:41 pm
I agree with Karen L. Although I’m actually a fan of Andrew Davies, I think his major flaw as a writer is giving away too much, too soon. (I don’t mind his “sexing up” of Austen, and don’t actually think he reallly does it all that much.)