In which we possibly fail to recognize snark, to our everlasting shame
Karen L. posted a comment with a Letter to the Editor of the New York Times in reference to the Joyce Carol Oates quote we posted earlier in the week:
To the Editor:
As summer reading lists beckon, surely The Times owes its younger readers better than Joyce Carol Oates’s dismissal of Jane Austen’s alleged “too many descriptions of furniture and balls and ballroom gowns.”
Austen’s fans admire her economy of description of physical objects; any first-year English student has learned that Austen uses things only when necessary for characterization.
I hope that this will encourage your readers, who lack demanding publication schedules of their own, to use the summer to actually look into a Jane Austen novel.
Kate Ward
Chicago, May 21, 2007
To which we responded when we read it: “Oh SNAP!”
Then Cub Reporter Julie B. posted a comment:
Wasn’t this meant ironically? I mean, maybe Oates is a Janeite and knows there were very few such descriptions in her novels, and was certain we’d all get the joke?
We didn’t think so, but just to be fair went back and read the full text of Ms. Oates’ comment in the original article:
I can suggest Ernest Hemingway. There’s much too much smoking, drinking, fishing and hunting in Hemingway, and it could all be cut out. If that is cut out about 70 percent of Hemingway would go.
And let’s say Jane Austen: too many descriptions of furniture and balls and ballroom gowns. I’m sure I could think of many other titles that would benefit from being cut, including some of my own.
Saying there is “much too much smoking, drinking, fishing and hunting in Hemingway” has GOT to be a joke. Hasn’t it? Because there is a lot of it, certainly, but it’s kind of the point. Suggesting cutting it is quite funny.
But then, to say in the same vein that there are “too many descriptions of furniture and balls and ballroom gowns” in Jane Austen’s work is wrong, because there are hardly any such descriptions. Whereas there are lots and lots of the to-be-cut items in Hemingway. So if there is irony in Ms. Oates’ comment, they are opposite kinds of irony, if that makes any sense. Perhaps if there IS a joke there, that is why so many of us normally-not-without-humor types missed it.
We feel it’s quite possible that Ms. Oates is making a subtle point that the premise of the article is rather stupid (which it is). Or perhaps our chapeau d’etain just needs some adjusting. ![]()













May 25th, 2007 at 9:23 pm
Maybe I missed the joke since I thought she was being dead serious about Hemingway, as I actually thought it was a darn fine piece of editing.
May 25th, 2007 at 10:49 pm
Perhaps there is also some “secret subtext” in her comment. We should give the woman the benefit of the doubt. If she can be persuaded to engage in an intelligent dialogue, we might get the chance to understand what she really meant by her statement—or not. At worst it could liven things up around here, no?
Let us hope that she subscribes to Google alerts to her name… Ms Joyce Carol Oates, calling Ms Joyce Carol Oates. Ms Joyce Carol Oates…
May 26th, 2007 at 6:42 pm
LOL Tony. I hope she responds
I still fail to see the sarcasm or irony though. It seems like a statement following in the same strains as the previous statement.
May 27th, 2007 at 12:19 pm
Ah, a snarkfest. I do so enjoy them. I doubt Ms. Oates had irony in mind when she made that statement. I think perhaps her viewing of Jane Austen films, and her under-cover-of-darkness reading of Georgette Heyer novels and sundry Jane Austen spin offs got her momentarily confused.
So, I shall give her the benefit of the doubt. After all, how could this author, who seems to regurgitate words and novels faster than I can keep up with, possibly find any fault with Jane’s impeccable, spare prose?
May 29th, 2007 at 6:06 pm
I thought maybe she was being ironic because of this line in the article:
[emphasis added]
It’s entirely possible I’m giving her too much credit.
May 29th, 2007 at 6:31 pm
Yes, a couple of us discussed that JCO must have meant to be ironic, because anyone in their right mind would not have said such a stupid statement. And JCO is anything but stupid.