Ah well
Since a couple of late nights have screwed up the Editrix’s internal body clock beyond assistance, and she’s been cheating on Jane with her new DVD of NORTH AND SOUTH (the Elizabeth Gaskell one, not the Civil War one, bien sur–we love the, erm, music, yeah, that’s it, the music!), no regular posting today, though we have some stuff in the pipeline. Don’t forget to check “She’s Everywhere” over to the right there, and our Gentle Readers can feel free to treat this as an open thread. Give us some feedback if you like–what can AustenBlog do to better serve you, the Gentle Reader?
(The Editrix won a Customer Service award at le travail du jour, can you tell?)
January 18th, 2007 at 6:11 am
The music. Yeah, I hear you ;).
In all seriousness though, I wonder if Mr. Armitage could be convinced to play an Austen hero sometime in the future; though at the moment, it escapes me who he’d be good for. Mr. Knightely, maybe? Darcy definately.
January 18th, 2007 at 6:40 am
I could see him as Cpt Wentworth, but alas it wasn’t to be. At least we get to enjoy him enormously as Mr Stern-Mill-Owner.
January 18th, 2007 at 7:19 am
*coughColonelBrandoncough*
January 18th, 2007 at 8:31 am
And I enjoyed him a great deal as Mr. Vicar of Dibley. I agree though I would have loved to see him as Capt. Wentworth, but maybe Knightly could be in his future. I can only hope.
January 18th, 2007 at 10:25 am
Mr. Armitage was quite a good Mr. Vicar of Dibley. And a handsome brooding Sir Guy in black leather too. I would like to see him as Knightly.
January 18th, 2007 at 11:17 am
Hey! Richard is wonderful, isn’t he?
The perfect Captain Wentworth :(. And the perfect Mr Knightley, Darcy, Rochester etc
January 18th, 2007 at 11:32 am
There’s always Col. Brandon in the new S&S! He’s probably the right age, although Marianne would be seriously touched in the head not fall for him.
January 18th, 2007 at 12:10 pm
I seem to recall Marianne being a bit touched in the head. Or was it the heart? LOL
Open thread. Feedback. Love the site. Keep up the great work. That’s pretty much it for now.
Richard Armitage would make a wonderful Knightley! I did love Jeremy Northam in that role. Mark Strong’s came across as too angry.
January 18th, 2007 at 12:46 pm
I really DO love the music in N&S–and the cinematography, the lighting, the marvelous cast, the costumes, the art direction, the whole thing. It’s one of the best series the BBC has ever done in my opinion, and it’s criminal that it didn’t get more attention than, say, Bleak House, which was good but no patch on N&S. I’d rather see something like that, made with craft and care, than some eejit trying to “fix” costume dramas by adding a lot of modern nonsense. Just hire good people and do it right and people will watch and obsess.
And the eye candy ain’t bad either!
But seriously, sometimes I just let the title theme play in a loop while I go in the kitchen to get tea, wash my hands, etc. just because I like the theme music. It’s so beautiful and haunting and emotional, and perfect for the series.
As I have become quite fond of the sweet, charming Harry Jasper Kennedy, I would rather see Mr. Armitage play a nice JA hero rather than a moody, broody Darcy/Rochester type, though of course he does so magnificently. Col. Brandon is an excellent suggestion (O! Fangirls! Imagine the silent-suffering puppy-dog eyes, and swoon!), though as Sylvia points out, Marianne would be mad not to dump pretty-boy Willoughby and just run off to Gretna Green with Brandon. We’ve heard the same argument back when everyone was proposing Gerry Butler as Brandon. But that argument could be made for the 1995 S&S too, and even the old BBC series, despite Col. Brandon’s I Love the 70s hairstyle in that one. Pretty Willoughbys, but rather sexy Brandons–a seventeen-year-old might go for the pretty boy, even today, but us MAAWs know better.
Richard Armitage would make a fine Mr. Knightley as well, if they bring out the charming, funny part of his character as well as his Emma-scolding part.
January 18th, 2007 at 1:44 pm
Re: N&S, that moment, at the end of the first episode, when Margaret is doing voice-over and the scene is the cotton mill - and the floating cotton, and the silhouette of Thorton, and the music swells - there should be awards for a such a perfect combination of score, cinematography, and mood. Fantastic.
Re: Armitage as Knightley, can’t say I’m really in love with the idea, Knightley is a nice guy, but I find Emma so annoying I can’t help but think it’s a character flaw that he loves her (Knightley, meet Samson?). Wouldn’t want my poor impression of Knightly to rub off on my fangirl appreciation of Armitage.
January 18th, 2007 at 2:34 pm
He’s 35 now. If he’s going to play Brandon or Knightley, he should get cracking.
January 18th, 2007 at 4:26 pm
“North and South” is definitely up there on my list of favorite novels. =) And the miniseries is excellent too; can’t argue with anything that anybody else has said! Personally I preferred the ending in the novel to the one in the mini, but some disagree.
January 18th, 2007 at 4:41 pm
Richard Armitage would make a wonderful Col. Brandon. I was part of the camp that thought he would make an excellent Capt. Wentworth, so much so that I completely forgot about S&S3. And OH, imagine if they showed the duel
Swoon alert!
Actually, I’ve always wanted to see Richard Armitage take on something like “The Scarlet Pimpernel” or some kind of swashbuckler adventure. Oh who am I kidding…I’ll watch him in anything.
January 18th, 2007 at 4:47 pm
I too have fallen in love with Mr. Armitage to the point of contemplating buying a mult-region DVD player so that I can catch the Vicar of Dibley and Robin Hood before they’re shown here in the States. That end scene when they meet in the train station. Swoon.
January 18th, 2007 at 5:08 pm
cheating on Jane with NORTH AND SOUTH DVD
Ha totally, Mags! After someone on this blog (Heather?) posted a N&S video on youtube I began downloading Monsieur Armitage pics onto my P&P folder, feeling like I was sneaking them in next to Darcy photos! I consoled myself with reasoning that I am actaully a period film fan as well and a Janeite and that the two are mutually compatible. And that N&S bumps us forward a few years and is actually a Jane spawn of sorts.
About the blog: great, accessible, easy to read, good sense of humor, good discussions, good info, and yummy bites for Janeites! Keep up the good work Mags, Julie B., Tasha, Mary, and Dorothy (!) I always enjoy what is posted here.
January 18th, 2007 at 5:50 pm
And OH, imagine if they showed the duel Swoon alert!
Oooh! Especially if Willoughby is played by some pretty-boy punk and just gets totally pwn3d by the Colonel. Oh, I’m pre-swooning!!!
January 18th, 2007 at 5:55 pm
right. although this is a blog for all fans austen, i have to digress for a short moment.
pride and prejudice (’95) has always been the torch that i hold every adaptation to. and no, nothing has ever come close to it.
and then i watched north and south.
*drumroll*
i can honestly say that i spent about two weeks straight sneaking away whenever i had a moment to watch it (hello! the final train station scene?!) and have thus come to the conclusion that r. armitage is absolutely begging to become one of austen’s characters.
he’s got the brood factor, he’s got the looks…. now the only dilema is as to what lovely man he should be. a fourth rendition of darcy? knightley? he list goes on.
okay, done.
January 18th, 2007 at 5:56 pm
and p.s. does anyone know the exact date that robin hood is coming to bbc america? i know it’s sometime in march….
January 18th, 2007 at 7:14 pm
Oh totally Armitage as Knightley. Yes, I can see that.
January 18th, 2007 at 8:40 pm
Robin Hood starts March 3rd.
January 18th, 2007 at 9:56 pm
While some of us are on the subject of S&S, I still think Henry Cavill should be Willoughby.
http://imdb.com/gallery/ss/0245844/Ss/0245844/17-CT-10891.jpg.html?hint=group
http://henry.intensevibe.net/
January 18th, 2007 at 9:57 pm
Poor Marianne! She has to choose between Richard Armitage and Henry Cavill. Thankfully in the end it’s Richard she chooses. Man, I wish they would allow us to do the casting!
January 18th, 2007 at 10:16 pm
huge fan of henry cavill! he hasn’t really gotten to stretch his acting legs thus far (except for a few minor roles) but i could see him fitting in perfectly. perfect suggestion, sylvia
January 18th, 2007 at 10:54 pm
Yes, of COURSE it was the music. It was certainly not Thornton that you liked so much!
January 18th, 2007 at 11:05 pm
It is a truth universally acknowledged, that an excellent actor in possession of Janeites’ hearts, must be in want of an Austen hero-role.
However little known the feelings or views of such a man may be on his first entering into fame, this truth is so well fixed in the minds of the adoring Janeites that he is considered as the rightful property of some one or other of their adaptations.
“My dear Mags,” said her reader to her one day, “have you heard that S&S3 is to be cast at last?”
Sorry, a bit trite, and I don’t mean to tease, because I’m right there with you. I was hoping he’d be cast as Capt Wentworth. He’d be perfect in the letter scene. Can’t you just visualize…mmm. But Col Brandon is good, especially if Willoughby is played by a boy-band cutey-pie.
January 18th, 2007 at 11:31 pm
Yum, Richard Armitage…I need to get out my own DVD sometime soon.
January 19th, 2007 at 4:28 am
Henry Cavill–ooooh, what a delightfully pretty, pretty boy. Yes indeed for Willoughby!
January 19th, 2007 at 4:38 am
He looks like he would be a good Willoughby indeed! I’m not very sure about Richard Armitage as Colonel Brandon though… It seems that all the period drama fans are totally crazy about him and want to cast him in every new period piece! But I must say that, although I think he’s a good actor, I don’t understand why everybody seems to be having such a huge crush on him…!
January 19th, 2007 at 6:31 am
Not only he is a fine actor but also he is gorgeous, Franka. His deep, expressive eyes and melting voice are hard to resist. But beauty is on the eye of the beholder and i am sure many ladies wonder what´s the fuss about him.
January 19th, 2007 at 6:40 am
Since Wentworth is out of the question, I would like to see RA as Brandon but on the other side, he´s too handsome and i would not believe Marianne could possibly consider him too old and resist his charms. Unless they manage to make him look older with make up. Also Brandon´s role is a bit short and in the end most f RA´s fan would think there wasn´t enough RA on the movie. Knightley is a good option.
January 19th, 2007 at 10:27 am
I own N&S but have not yet seen the DVD. I confess to not enjoying the book at all (very dreary, very depressing, Margaret completely unlikeable), but I keep hearing it called a great romance. Perhaps the mini is more romantic than the book? If so, then I would think it can’t be terribly faithful to the book. That book isn’t romantic in the slightest, IMO.
January 19th, 2007 at 11:06 am
Pili, that was wonderful. LOL.
January 19th, 2007 at 11:32 am
I just watched that this week as well! Did you see the extras on the DVD where they interview Richard and mentioned how is compared to Colin all the time. He’s a hottie….though he isn’t my favorite of the Austen boys, I can see Knightley…DEFINITELY Capt. Wentworth….tall, dark, and delicious!
January 19th, 2007 at 12:55 pm
“NORTH AND SOUTH (the Elizabeth Gaskell one, not the Civil War “
OK, I must confess that for the longest time I could not understand the infatuation expressed on JA-related message boards for “North and South”. Living in Virginia, I certainly luvvved the Civil War mini-series well enough, but couldn’t see any connections to Willoughby, Brandon, Knightley, etc. You can imagine my surprise and delight when Netflix brought me up to date!
January 19th, 2007 at 3:52 pm
We’ll be watching North and South (for the second time) as a family soon, but this week we’re watching, (for the second time) Wives and Daughters, also by E. Gaskell. I bought both from Amazon last year. LOVE them. If you haven’t seen W&D you must watch it also.
p.s. Once in awhile it’s okay to cheat on dear Jane….isn’t it?
(We did watch Sense and Sensibility two weeks ago and we’re watching Emma this afternoon-does that count?)hee….hee…
January 19th, 2007 at 6:39 pm
i really love wives and daughters, though i think that north and south was gaskell’s “better” story. still, both are great.
January 19th, 2007 at 7:07 pm
Haha, very open thread! How come the posts with the most amount of comments have been about Richard Armitage?
I have to admit, I’m nothing near a fangurrrl, but I was *quite* surprised when my mother said that she thought RA as Thornton had “a case of the uglies.” LOL
Anyway, keep up the enjoyable blog work. Always a fun read. And it’s great to converse with others who enjoy (understatement?) Austen’s work. I have yet to meet any Janeite in person anywhere. The one discussion I had with an acquaintance about Austen was about Mansfield Park—I ended up supplying Austen’s name, the setting, and character names (”What’s the girl’s name?” “Who, Fanny?” “Yeah! And that other guy…” “Edmund Bertram?” “No…” “Henry Crawford.” “Yeah…”)… I hadn’t read the book, this person had.
Oy, mankind! Or rather, local mankind.
January 19th, 2007 at 8:28 pm
Julie P., I think you will like the mini better than the book, although it is still melancholy and still very much North and South. However, the end is much more satisfying and romantic than in the book, because it shortens considerably the several-month-long lull in action just before the final scenes, which are themselves improved. I really liked the book until the end, when I felt it ran out of steam until crash-bang, it was over. As for the mini’s Margaret, she does not dwell so much on her excessive feelings of guilt, and there are one or two added scenes where she defends Thornton. But it’s worth seeing for the sole reason that Richard Armitage is phenomenal as John Thornton. It is not his handsomeness. When I first saw the BBC N&S web site, I thought, not bad, but why all the fuss? It is the emotion etched in his features, his mien and his voice that hooks you.
So, Franka, naturally we want more. We want him cast in every tall, dark and handsome role we can think of (mainly classic novel-based roles) and any that we can’t think of, which is more difficult to discuss.
January 19th, 2007 at 11:33 pm
Mags, I’m surprised that it has taken you THIS LONG to discover N&S!!! I would have thought any fan of period drama and especially Austen would have been ensnared by Richard Armitage’s perfectly delectable John Thornton (oh, and yes, the rest of the cast, score, costumes and story are great, too) long before now.
I’m as huge a JA fan as anyone but I must admit that N&S became one of my favorite miniseries’ as soon as I finished viewing Episode 2 (”I understand you completely” says the wounded Thornton to Margaret as he walks out her door). Swoon!
January 20th, 2007 at 9:38 am
Pili, I think my problem is that, if N&S the movie is more romantic, etc. than the book, then it’s not really a good representation of the book. Granted, I didn’t like the book, but, if they make that many changes to the story (including, from what I’ve heard, the addition of some characters) then why bother to say it’s an adaptation? I heard plenty of people complain that P&P3 was too different from the book (taking away the social commentary and focusing on the romance) and that’s why they didn’t like it. So, using the exact same standard, if N&S the movie is so different from the book (turning a rather depressing social commentary into something that is primarily a romance), why are people praising it so? Is it just because of Richard Armitage?
I liked Flambards the mini better than Flambards the books, but the mini was very faithful to the spirit of the books. I didn’t like Andrew Davies’ The Way We Live Now because it was NOT faithful to the spirit of the book (and I really liked the book). That was another social commentary, but Davies (as per usual) focused on sex and gave us very little of the book’s actual plot.
January 20th, 2007 at 10:56 am
LauraGrace, I can relate. I live in a virtual cultural wilderness from what I can tell. Granted I don’t get out much. But I have to go online to find kindred spirits.
January 20th, 2007 at 10:57 am
I like both the book and the miniseries.
I don’t think the book is a “rather depressing social commentary”.
I read it after watching the adaptation and found it deep, interesting, moving, great in the description of the characters (see Thornton’s thoughts especially). I was just a little disappointed with the ending, it was a bit rushed.
The adaptation is faithful to the spirit of the book and cleverly made.
January 20th, 2007 at 11:04 am
I’ve read North and South as well as seen the mini-series. I like them both and don’t think that the mini-series is a whole lot more romantic then the book. Other then the train station scene the film doesn’t have alot of outward romance in it,imo. Actually, if I remember correctly the book has that wonderful scene that the mini-series left out. For those who have read the book it’s the scene right after that rock gets thrown at Margaret and John carries her up to his home.
January 20th, 2007 at 12:14 pm
My respect/fangirling for RA was cemented when I watched the interview with him and he said he went out and read Engels after he landed the part.
Re: the book itself. When I first read N&S I was astounded by Gaskell’s sensitivity towards the idea of union (In the 1850s! Gasp!). She recognized that for workers, it was their *only* source of power, hence some union discipline on their side was necessary (Margaret didn’t really understand this). I think the filmmakers did an admirable job of staying true to this part of Gaskell’s message, although it may be harder for us to see, since unionization is not *quite* as controversial today as it was 150 years ago.
Hope this adds to the general discussion…
January 20th, 2007 at 11:00 pm
Julie…please go re-read Pili’s comment. She said THE ENDING was different and that the action was much condensed (it is). The very very ending scene is completely different and definitely anachronistic; I shouldn’t like it, but I do anyway.
The social commentary is still there, the whole north/south comparison which really is a reaction to the changeover of the social classes due to the Industrial Revolution, and the economy of England from agricultural to industrial. It’s boiled down to the lives and experiences of a few people, which is why Gaskell’s work compares so well to Austen’s, even when she worked on a bigger canvas in addressing social problems, etc. The romance of Margaret and Thornton is a background, and develops with the story, as it should.
I would add that the film made Margaret standable–less of a picture of perfection. I found her a little annoying in the book. Daniela Denby-Ashe was fantastic, creating a lovely and very sympathetic character even when the viewer is wondering “ARE YOU NUTS, WOMAN?”–who would have thought Janie Harper had it in her?
Seriously, her reticence towards romance is more understandable–you see absolute panic in her eyes when men make mush-talk to her, because she’s not ready to Make A Very Good Match just because it is suitable. She has the haughty bearing of Book!Margaret but it’s believable when she befriends a family of mill workers.
The whole cast is remarkable, really–not a bad job in the bunch. Sinead Cusack is absolutely fantastic as Mrs. Thornton, and the scenes with her and Richard Armitage are incredible.
I want to re-read the book now. I originally watched the miniseries a year ago, right around the time I finished reading the novel on the advice of my Janeite buddy Diane. (We were in the used book store and she pretty much thrust it into my hands and insisted that I buy it. For $2, I figured, why not?) I really liked it and returned it to Netflix most reluctantly. I don’t know why it took me a year to buy it. I guess I just didn’t need another obsession. And I don’t think I AM obsessed, I’m just enjoying it tremendously and pleased to add it to my DVD collection.
I’m also bummed that the planned adaptation of Cranford got cancelled!
January 21st, 2007 at 12:04 am
Well, Julie P., I guess it would depend on where you draw the line between faithful and unfaithful adaptations. If you are very strict, then indeed you may not like it. I admit to being more generous than most, and ask only that the basic themes, character motivation, setting and arc of the story be followed. North and South, the mini, has all of this because, as a 4-hour miniseries, it has time for it (something P&P3 lacked), except in relation to the religious themes, which are treated in a more humanistic sense, IMO. The remaining social commentary is there, if not as nuanced as in the book. I am not so exacting of the minor characters, dialogue, and individual scenes. The screenwriter did change Mr. Bell’s character, added Miss Lassiter(?), replaced some scenes and added others, probably for the purpose of providing a more cinematic canvas for the main character’s inner thoughts. I thought she was successful, with the exception of Miss Lassiter, who didn’t add much.
I find the mini more romantic (satisfying is a more apt term), but only because she improved the ending, which was my only disappointment with the book. But it is not all romantic angst all the time, as displayed by a brooding Richard Armitage. Discussions of this mini, or any adaptation really, will naturally focus on two things: the most riveting scenes (usually romantic) and the deviations from the book. Unfortunately, such discussions can seriously misrepresent the adaptation as a whole to those who haven’t seen it and are trying to piece it together from discussions. Thornton has more to do than brood over Margaret, such as dealing with the union and his failing business. Margaret has more to do than brood over Thornton, such as learning to love Milton and dealing with seven deaths. Almost every supporting actor is absolutely stellar, especially Mrs Thorton, Higgins, Mr Hale, Mrs Hale, Bessie, Boucher and Miss Thornton, who provides levity to the melancholy, morbid plot. The art direction and score are beautiful, certain scenes hauntingly so, such as the scene in the carding room, with the cotton dust in snowflakes all around and the childworkers scrambling on the floor picking up stuff.
Finally, as highly recommended as this adaptation is by those who share your interest in classic novels, and assuming you have sufficient resources, wouldn’t it make better sense to try it than to cast it out of hand based on lopsided discussions? At the very least you can then form your own unfiltered opinion of it. And my hope is that you will have another miniseries to add to your list of favorites.
January 21st, 2007 at 8:07 pm
Oh, I own the DVD. I bought it on a whim when I heard how much people loved it. But then I read the book and didn’t like it very much. I didn’t like Cranford either — I guess Mrs. Gaskell is just not for me.
February 4th, 2007 at 3:42 am
I love this mini. Am now obsessed with it and seeing it every chance I get. I wish they had left in the scene where Thornton carries Margaret up to his house and he says her name twice as in the book…would have loved to hear RA’s voice in that scene.